It all started at the end of last year. Holidays were upon us and my birthday was soon after. I had been reading all about the new NVIDIA GTX 970/980 graphic cards and realized it may be a good time to upgrade from my GTX 680. I went onto eBay and found a newly listed EVGA GTX 780 (maybe a Superclocked?) for a Buy It Now price of $240 with shipping. I was going to have my wife get me the card, but an hour later, it was gone... I was upset on missing the deal, so I set out to find something better for a better price. This took me on a month-and-a-half journey that resulted in the best deal I have made to-date...
My Graphic Card History
For the longest time (or what seemed so) I had a EVGA GTX 480, that would later be accompanied by another in SLI. I was happy with it's performance, and blissfully ignoring its hefty power consumption. By the time I had a GTX 480, the GTX 580 was already out, and my real purpose had been for its use of CUDA cores. Reviews stated that the GTX 580 had some issues and many recommended going with the GTX 480 for the time being. The CUDA core difference was small, and the GTX 480's were obviously better priced (especially used), so that became my first notable high-end card. I believe my first card cost me $300.
A couple of years later the NVIDIA GTX 700 series was brought out. Everyone was clamoring to pick one up, so forums were flooded with enthusiasts selling off what they could, including an abundance of NVIDIA GTX 600 series cards. Of course I considered a GTX 780, but once I realized the GTX 770 was near-identical to the GTX 680, I thought I would go with a GTX 680 instead. This would be less expensive and have a leap in CUDA cores from a GTX 480. So I searched the forums for a decent deal. Most GTX 680's were going for well over $300. If you wanted a good non-reference model, the lowest would run you $340 (if you were lucky). I ended up coming upon a EVGA GTX 680 SC with a backplate. I haggled with the seller until I got him down to $300.
The card has served me well for a little over a year. I have never treated it roughly and have only ran tests for overclocking, never leaving it at those clocks when testing was done. I rarely game, but when I do, it definitely surpasses what my GTX 480 SLI setup could do. I remember playing Crysis 3 and having to turn on V-sync to make it playable with the GTX 480 SLI. On the other hand, the GTX 680 had no problems whatsoever. It is still a great card and I intend to keep it as my primary backup.
Holiday Gifts
I wanted to get something for the holiday and my birthday, as I knew no one else would know what I wanted, letalone get it for me. I toyed around with a variety of different graphic cards I could possibly afford at decent prices:
The first was a GTX 770. I could then put it in SLI with my GTX 680, and have that extra power. The main drawback would be that I would not be able to use SLI for the extra CUDA cores, and even then, it would not give me double the amount of CUDA cores performance for my specific application. It would also not overclock as high as a GTX 770 SLI since the GTX 680 memory just couldn't match it.
The second was a GTX 690. That too could be SLI'd with GTX 680. There were two main drawbacks though. The initial being minor in that it just didn't have a HDMI port if I wanted it to be my primary card. The last being that its power consumption and heat have always been plaguing issues for GTX 690 owners.
The Third was a GTX 780 Ti. It would be a powerhouse of a card to own, and only second to a GTX 980. While power consumption and heat could be a concern, the only one I had was that its pricing (new or used) was still ridiculously high. Some I saw were selling for what you could buy a GTX 980 for!
The final option was a GTX 970. The pricing was great and I had seen reviews where it could hold its own against a GTX 780 Ti depending on the game, and/or if it was overclocked. The only drawback I know of is that apparently numerous GTX 970's/980's are susceptible to coil whine.
Decisions, Decisions
After a long debate with myself, and checking prices on GTX 770's, GTX 970's and GTX 780 Ti's from various people of differing forums, I finally decided to buy a GTX 770. The card was an EVGA with an ACX cooler and included a backplate. I took a chance and the seller was willing to sell it to me for $170 shipped. I checked for weeks afterwards on eBay and forums to see if anything was sold cheaper, but that was the cheapest I was ever able to find.
I finally had another card, and while it wouldn't drastically increase my CUDA cores performance for the application I used, it would help somewhat. And whenever I got a new game, a GTX 770/680 SLI would have no problem dishing out high frame rates.
Then She Walked In
I was generally happy about my purchase. I wouldn't be able to see the GTX 770 and use it for a few months, but once I had it, I had big plans for it.
I had emailed a guy in December about a used Zotac GTX 970 he was selling for $280. He had replied that something had come up with the card and he would not be selling it until he sorted it out. I then bought my GTX 770, celebrated the holidays, and forgot about the GTX 970...
Out of the blue, I get an email from the same guy telling me he has a brand new, unopened EVGA GTX 970 SC he's going to sell, but wanted to offer it to me first before posting it for sale on the forum. He said he was charging only $310. We discussed the card and the reasons to sell for a bit - one being that his other identical card had loud coil whine - and we finally agreed that he would sell it to me for $300 shipped. The payment was as an electronic Amazon gift card!
Are You Serious?
Now I had a GTX 770 in the wings that would never be used nearly as much as the GTX 970. So I decided to sell the GTX 770 on eBay to recoup my losses.
I listed it on eBay for 5 days. The competition for EVGA GTX 770's was stiff as most were Superclocked versions. My only advantage was a backplate and lower price. I expected to get some watchers, and I knew if I had at least 8 I would get at least one bid. I also expected that bid to come within the last 2 days of the auction.
On the last day I finally got my first bid. By this point the watchers were at 16, they maxed out at 18, then dwindled down to 15 (likely losing bidders or people who wanted it cheaper). But then something weird happened...
I watched the initial bidder continuously outbid newcomers. Unexpectedly, I received a message from him. He asked if I would ship to Chile and that he would "of course" pay for the shipping expenses through an additional invoice. I told him that I didn't really want to do that - my auction was only for shipping to the US - but if he paid an additional $10 on top of the shipping expenses, it would be fine. He agreed. At one point he was outbid. He then messaged me again and asked if he could pay me for priority shipping. I gave him the prices (plus $10), and he agreed.
Then he sent me another message stating that I could ship the card to a Florida address because it would be safer. If he won, and I shipped it to Chile, he not only would have paid all the shipping charges, but given me an extra $10! So, I asked if this (Florida) address was his PayPal address and told him I had to send it to the address on the PayPal account. Of course it wasn't, but he asked why I couldn't ship it to Florida. I told him eBay rules stated that it should only be shipped to the address on the PayPal account; but if he wanted me to ignore the rules and ship it to Florida instead, it would still cost him $10 more.
With a little under an hour left, I get yet another message from this bidder. He places an eBay link and quotes a part stating that a confirmed PayPal address is necessary. I begin to write about how I'm assuming all the risk from a bidder who has one positive feedback, not even from the 12 months. And how it's strange when someone wants to bid on an auction that is not for international shipping, then asks a question about it after bidding, then changes their mind for domestic shipping. I even ponder if I should ask why $10 is such a big deal when he was willing to pay almost $50 before... Instead, I just send him a link about a bad experience a past eBay seller had with a person who had an unconfirmed address and still bid, despite the auction explicitly stating otherwise.
20 minutes go by (with another 20 left on the auction) before I get another reply. The guy mentions the 2006 date, throws a kiddy "LOL", and now says that $10 extra is no problem. In my reply I tell him that I think he's probably a nice guy but explain why it feels weird dealing with him. I then ask for his PayPal address so I can setup an invoice in case he wins.
A few minutes later he responds with two physical addresses and something about using some mail service I've never seen or heard of. Oh, and that USPS "sucks". So I immediately tell him that he probably shouldn't bid because I don't know that service and USPS Priority is the free shipping I am providing in the listing.
3 minutes before the auction ends this guy, who I now assume is a troll, messages me his PayPal email address and that his service is through his account. I'm not sure that it's his intelligence or a language-barrier, so I explain that I only know USPS, UPS, DHL, and FedEx. I further explain that I will only be using FedEx.
The clock runs down and I get nervous hoping he doesn't make another bid. In the last few seconds, he does, and he wins...
I mean, let's face facts. This guy comes out of nowhere and expects me to meet all his demands just because he needs me to. If you don't have a lot of positive feedback, want a package shipped internationally for a nationwide-only auction, reneg on any agreements we originally made, don't like the deal I followup with, and then ask that I change the provided service I use; you can go f**k yourself! I rather be shorted a few dollars than to go through all this!
So, he promptly pays the auction price, and then messages me on how to send the $10 through PayPal. After a brief explanation, he sends the extra $10. Of course he then asks if I have the box, which I don't (my auction stated to ask questions, but I didn't mean after it was done...).
After all that, and minus PayPal "fees", I ended up with $206.50. That's a total profit of $36.50. This is not including the amount for shipping which would lower it down to around $30.
Just to clear the air, I have no problem shipping overseas. But my auction was for free shipping, so I didn't want to pay $40 or more from my winnings. Doing so would have not only ate all my profits but also had me lose money on the GTX 770!
To conclude, I sold the GTX 770 for a profit but without so much as holding it in my hands...
[Note: I waited to publish this article until this crazy auction ended.]
Wait for It...
I was satisfied with my GTX 970 purchase. Actually, I was extremely happy. I could keep the card and see what it could do, or I could turn around and sell it for a quick $40-$60 profit on eBay.
My mind then began to ponder about something better, but there really wasn't anything in the EVGA GTX 970 line, except for the FTW model. I somewhat wanted a FTW for its baseplate connected to the heatpipes. The GTX 970 SC ACX cooler has a "flaw" where one of the heatpipes does not touch the GPU die. The baseplate would solve this. The FTW also has one extra aluminum heatpipe, where the SC has two full heatpipes and a smaller third.
I ignored that thinking and tried to move on but then the new revision of the SSC version was released. It had three full-sized copper heatpipes that were straightened, a new MOSFET cooling plate, and one of the two 6-pins was now an 8-pin (more power if needed). The first two features were for extra cooling measures and the only review I saw had a higher overclock than any of the FTW reviews I read. The FTW+ would be follow soon... I then began to consider selling the card again. By this time eBay prices had plundered somewhat (after a single week), but I could still make a quick $25-$45 profit. I eventually gave up on wanting to part with my new GTX 970.
My eBay Watch list was filled with GTX 980's in an attempt to gauge their prices. Still too pricey for me, but fun nonetheless to dream about. Just as I had quelled any thought of selling my GTX 970, I decided to ask an eBay seller about his auction for a $600 OBO EVGA GTX 980 SC reference card (which comes with a pre-installed backplate).
My question to him was what was the cheapest price he would sell the card for? He told me $570 because of the free shipping and eBay fees. I replied that I had seen another reference card go for $470 [true], and that right now eBay listings were supposed to be free until today. He mentioned something about not having any knowledge about the promotion. As a short in the dark, I decided to see if he would consider a trade for my unopened GTX 970 and some cash...
Amazingly, he said yes! I haggled him down from $150 to $120, paid him, and he sent the card off to me.
Deal of The Century
Noting the date the deal was made, and comparing to (then) current eBay auction listings, this is by far the best deal I have ever made. I could easily sell this card and make a profit, even though it is used, and despite the fact shipping my card added around $10 to what I spent. However, a backplate costs about $20 on Amazon, and the reference versions all included a backplate. I had planned to get a backplate for the GTX 970, so the offset is comparable.
I also believe that I will be able to get close to what I paid for it ($420) if I decide to sell it around the same time next year. I have found that higher-end card models tend to drop about $100 or more per year on forums. If I sold it on eBay right now, I could make anywhere from $50 profit and up. If I sold it overseas, I could probably make upwards of $100.
$425 Zotac GTX 980
Once I bought the GTX 980, I kept watching eBay auctions to see if any better deals occurred. From the time I bought the card until now, I only saw one auction come close. The auction was for a brand new Zotac GTX 980 AMP! Edition for $425 with shipping. In comparison to what I bought, here are the main differences: 1) The Zotac was brand new. 2) The Zotac has a lower clock speed. 3) Zotac cards can receive a lifetime warranty if registered within 30 days; while EVGA cards can receive a lifetime warranty if registered within 14 days
This may seem like the better deal considering mine is used and does not come with an aftermarket cooler. But, there are a few reasons I want to share that makes me think the opposite.
The Zotac cards come with a standard 2-year warranty. EVGA cards come with a standard 3-year warranty. My card was used, so, at the least, I would have 2 years and 8 months left on the warranty. Both companies offer a global warranty, however, EVGA will actually honor it. Meaning, EVGA doesn't care where the card was bought and Zotac does, which translates to sending a Zotac card back to the original country of purchase for repair or replacement. EVGA allows warranty transfer, Zotac does not (important for reselling). Let's not forget, reference models come with a pre-installed backplate, and for a card this long, I think it is a necessity to avoid PCB flexing.
From what I have read, Zotac offers good support, but I have read a few posts suggesting otherwise. The same can be said of EVGA, but one review I read from Zotac was just too snarky to believe they were the better of the two. In addition, I have read many comments about how Zotac cards seem to be inferior in cooling and speed. Many comments complained of overly hot reference models, including a GTX 980. And this review recommends not even buying the Zotac GTX 980 AMP! Extreme Edition (top model). Evidently, the reviewer's [NVIDIA] reference model GTX 980, $60 cheaper, could outdo this model. As icing on the cake, time and time again, I have read how Zotac's OC utility software just doesn't work well or at all. People often have to use MSI Afterburner or EVGA Precision X instead.
Being that my version is already factory overclocked higher than the Zotac GTX 980 AMP! Edition, and that the Zotac GTX 980 AMP! Extreme Edition is only about 50Mhz "faster" (armed with the knowledge that the latter version does not seem to do too well when overclocked); I think I got the better deal in dollars, performance, and support.
Advantages of a Used Graphics Card
There are a few advantages to getting a used graphics cards instead of a new one. They are: Knowing how well the card performs [overclocking]; having it already broken in; and coil whine issues.
In terms of my used GTX 980, the seller had no knowledge of its overclocking prowess since he had never pushed it to its limits. This could be seen as a bonus since it would be horrible if he had been "coin mining" with it before. The card can be arguably said to broken in, depending on how many months he actually ran it and what for. That is something I am not privy to. What I do know is that it does not appear to have coil whine. When I asked the seller about this, he responded that he never heard any and that the card was relative quiet for a reference card [design]. This is great news considering how many GTX 970/980's have had this issue, and what a pain it would be to have to RMA once received. In addition, blower fans that come with reference designs are usually fairly loud, but maybe because of the Maxwell architecture it needs less fan RPM's to help with cooling...
One additional advantage for this particular card is that it is EVGA, so the warranty is transferable. Even if it had not been, I asked the seller if he had registered it on the manufacturer's site? To which he replied that he had not, allowing me to be the first person to do so.
Future Plans?
I do have some plans for this card. Of course I want to see what it can do in terms of overclocking. A friend and I will work on it and run tests for a period of a few days to see what its limits are on air.
When we finish that, I intend to add a closed loop cooling solution to the card. One of the benefits to getting a reference card is that you should be able to keep the stock, single fan on the VRAM while adding a closed loop cooling solution (if you know how). This is good because you do not need to rely on individual aftermarket heatsinks to dissipate the heat on the VRAM and hope that it's enough. The EVGA GTX970/980 do not have anything on the VRAM to begin with, which is likely because they are so low in power usage and heat - as is the whole card - that it does not require cooling. But having a stock fan, or any fan, to help is a good measure by any means. I'll be explaining more of my setup in a matter of month's...
Notice Anything?
Throughout this article you may have noticed a few things: 1) I seem to get great discounts. 2) I got at least three of my cards for $300. 3) All my cards are EVGA.
To address my first point, I deal with a lot of people and never give up on my goal if I am rejected or declined. The reason I get great discounts is because I'll be able to tell if I am conversing with someone who is willing to make a deal. I also put a lot of trust in people who are putting faith in me. Sometimes that means sending payments as PayPal gifts to avoid tax, or having to make the first move to establish trust. This can be good, but it can also be very bad. Never go into a situation like this without knowing the consequences if negative. I have been very lucky in this area and have not been screwed over in a long time. As a final thought to wrap-up this point, if I want to ask for a special deal or trade, I don't hesitate to ask. The worst someone can say is no.
The second point is more of a fun fact for me. I bought three great cards all at $300. That seems expensive, but at the times that I purchased them, they were deals. I would always check around and find the lowest price possible, and if I couldn't find a low price, I would find a way to get a low price.
This point may be important to those who value company support as much as I do. I love a good deal, but I also want to buy a brand that has great support. I don't think any other graphics card company has better support than EVGA: If you buy a used card from someone, their warranty is transferable to you. EVGA is an American company, but offers a global warranty. Every time I have ever had to contact them by email I have always got a reply within 24 hours. I am fortunate enough that none of my cards have ever needed to be RMA'd. The only card I had that died did so well after its warranty period. And from perusing threads and posts, many people have also acknowledged that while there could be better cards, EVGA has the best support and support policies, hands down. Just check out their Step-Up Program and see if their competitors have anything similar...
One Card to Rule Them All
In a little over a month I went from a GTX 770, to a GTX 970, to a GTX 980. How many people can say that? How many people can say that and at similar prices? Needless to say, I'm proud of myself!
There is no more room to go up - at least until a GTX 980 Ti 6GB or 8GB variants do appear. But I don't think I'll have any interest in those. I have only one 1080p TV (dedicated to my desktop) and don't intend to upgrade to 4K until I buy a camera that has 4K video recording capabilities. A Ti version may have more CUDA cores, but I don't think the price difference in comparison to what I actually paid will prompt a switch.
The only downside is a personal matter. I have yet to test out any version of the ACX cooler from EVGA. I hear they are fabulous and would like to try one some day. I have now had two that I never even laid eyes upon. The upside, again, is that a closed loop cooling solution should be advantageous with a reference design. For now, I am content with my new EVGA GTX 980 SC. And I am sure I will keep this for another couple years before even contemplating an upgrade of any sort.
Showing posts with label SLI. Show all posts
Showing posts with label SLI. Show all posts
Monday, January 19, 2015
Wednesday, December 17, 2014
Hybrid Physx, HyperSLI, Different SLI, Hybrid SLI/Crossfire, & SLI with Crossfire!
I was trying to think of what I should write next as I was perusing for deals on graphic cards. Then it hit me, why not discuss some interesting tricks that can be done for SLI and Crossfire! If you don't know what those are, think of it as RAID for graphic cards. And if you don't know what that is, then check out some of my other articles, or just read on...
WARNING: The techniques below do involve risk, I am not responsible for any mishaps.
SLI/Crossfire
ATI (now AMD) and NVIDIA were always the big contenders in the graphics card realm. Generally speaking, NVIDIA brings the most power, but AMD brings in better performance for their price tag. The battle between the two rages on as consumers fight amongst themselves as to who is better and why!
Along the way some new technology came about where you could connect two (or more) graphic cards together. If you connect at least two AMD/ATI graphic cards it's called Crossfire. If you connect two NVIDIA graphic cards it's called SLI (Scalable Link Interface).
Crossfire is now officially CrossfireX. There is some confusion with this name as CrossfireX was normally mentioned in relation to mobile platforms prior to the official change, and at times was also confusingly defined by some as four or more graphic cards in an array. As such, I continue to use Crossfire for just desktop graphic cards of two or more.
SLI and Crossfire offers better performance, mainly for games. It can offer better performance in applications, if those applications take advantage of two GPU's at one time, which seems rare. But one example is Adobe Premiere Pro. It can use SLI when rendering out video. Traditionally, graphic cards would need to be connected by physical "bridges" and had slots for these bridges. As of now, only AMD graphic cards can have bridges without a physical connection.
Hybrid Physx
This is probably the least useful trick of the five I will be discussing. Not because it is boring or difficult to accomplish, but because there is little use for it. Physx is proprietary to NVIDIA and used in some games to help increase aesthetics. (There are also applications that use Physx, but I believe that's even less popular than building games with it.) If you've played any of the newer Batman games on the PC, one difference with enabling Physx on a NVIDIA card would be the smoothness and wrinkling of Batman's cape as he moves about. It is a nice complement for details, but I have never found myself using Physx despite my favoritism for NVIDIA cards.
Anyways, Hybrid Physx is a way to connect an AMD card to a NVIDIA card and increase the performance for Physx games and applications. On older NVIDIA cards and AMD cards, this seems to work quite well. There are mixed results for newer cards, but it can be done. I even read about someone getting a GTX 680 and a R9 290 to work together, which oddly enough, I have.
The titles will have the links for the full instructions, but I will give the essential requirements in order to get them working:
Older NVIDIA Graphic Cards
Newer NVIDIA Graphic Cards
Note: The Hybrid Physx for newer NVIDIA cards will only work on Windows 7/8, and can only work on games that use Physx 2.0 (not 3.0).
For newer cards there seems to be a lot more work involved in getting everything setup. There are multiple files to download and delete, and if you upgrade your NVIDIA drivers (Physx will not upgrade if already present in the system), you will need to rerun Hybridiz. There is also the chance of things crashing if not done in order and accordingly.
Again, I find hybrid Physx rather useless for so much work. Any game with Physx will run happily without it. I have never been so saddened by a game's graphics (that has Physx), and thought to myself, "I need Hyrbid Physx". If anything, I would more likely just buy another identical NVIDIA card to SLI with, and increase the Physx performance that way. But it is a cool experiment to try if you're bored and have some time.
HyperSLI
HyperSLI is the ability to enable SLI on motherboards that do not officially support it. Originally, this innovation was brought to the public by Asrock. They had created a patch for their motherboards with a certain chipset. The team at NGO took the patch and modified it to work for any motherboard.
I personally performed this method on an ASUS Crosshair III motherboard. I had bought two NVIDIA 560 Ti's not realizing that the motherboard only supported Crossfire. So I went on a hunt to see if I could enable SLI, and luckily, I could!
The newer versions of this are done by a different team and they call it HyperSLI. It is just as simple (if not simpler) to use, and should be just as successful. The process is quite simple and will take very little time to complete:
NVIDIA requires at least two x8 PCI Express slots to officially offer SLI support. Motherboard manufacturers can often save money by offering one slot as a full x16 and another at x4. So, there are still plenty of motherboards out there with just Crossfire support, and if you happen to have one, this will almost certainly work!
Different SLI
Different SLI was actually created by the same team who created HyperSLI. ATI always had the added benefit of being able to Crossfire between other graphics cards (not all, but those that use the same architecture) despite their models. NVIDIA never grasped the concept and forced consumers to buy similar models [meaning same model but with the "choice" of a different manufacturer].
Different SLI has come along to change all that. Different SLI allows you to take two different model NVIDIA cards and put them into SLI. Initially, the theory was that only NVIDIA cards using identical GPU's could successfully perform Different SLI. There were some tests to support this, while there were some that did not. At this point, it has been determined that the hardware ID's have to match, or rather the three specific characters.
This really opens the doors for many NVIDIA users. There are numerous cards that can be SLI'd. If you have a cheap card, you may be able to upgrade with a better card and get SLI. If you have a new card, you may be able to get an older, cheaper one and get SLI. In any case, there is a good chance you can get that additional boost in performance that SLI delivers.
Here are the steps you need to know, including preparation, in order to perform Different SLI:
NOTE: GTX 970's & 980's hardware ID's match, so they should be able to SLI together.
You should fully know if a card you plan to get, or already have, should work with Different SLI before trying this. There is no reason to run out and buy a card that you come to find out simply won't work. Just as there is no reason to try Different SLI on two cards you already own if they are not compatible.
This is by far the most interesting item to discuss (for me). I have been wanting to try this for some time, but have either not had the funds or not had the resources available to try. When I first found out about this method I had a GTX 480. The GTX 580 was incompatible (in either theory), and I already had SLI, so I moved on.
But now I use a GTX 680 and would love to give a GTX 770 or a GTX 690 a try; just to see if I can do it, and how good it can do if so. With a GTX 770, it should react more like a GTX 680 or 770 SLI. However, a GTX 690 would be like a GTX 680 Tri-SLI setup. Others will argue more like a GTX 670 SLI with a 680, despite the amount of CUDA cores is exactly double that of a GTX 680, and a GTX 690 tests near-identical to that of a GTX 680 SLI setup. It would be even more interesting since a GTX 690 can be said to be about on par with a GTX 780 Ti or a GTX 980, depending on the settings and game. I would really like to compare benchmarks between a GTX 680 & 690 SLI versus a GTX 780 Ti SLI or GTX 980 SLI. But I digress...
Hybrid SLI/Hybrid Crossfire
Hybrid SLI or Hybrid Crossfire refers to having a discrete GPU (a GPU not part of the motherboard or the CPU) that can link with the graphics chip integrated into the motherboard or CPU. This is not to be confused with NVIDIA's Optimus or AMD's PowerXpress on mobile chips (laptops and notebooks). These features actually just switch between either the discrete graphics card or integrated graphics depending on the GPU load.
While originally this was used with motherboards that had integrated graphics, this is now largely related to CPU's. With the popularity of CPU's incorporating integrated graphics, there has been less of a need to have motherboards with integrated graphics. I also wanted to briefly mention that AMD refers to their CPU's with integrated graphics as APU's (Accelerated Processing Units). Yet the definition for an APU would actually apply to Intel CPU's as well.
Just for a bit of history, and for my next thought, the idea of combining two graphic cards was and is called hybrid-graphics. However, this is about switching from discrete to integrated graphics, not combining the two.
Intel still has hybrid-graphics, but NVIDIA no longer supports it. You should be able to downgrade your drivers and do some tweaks to get them to work, but you may have a performance impact for newer cards. Intel also has two types of hybrid-graphics: Fixed & Dynamic. Fixed determines which graphics source to use based on power. Dynamic determines which graphics source to use based on GPU load. NVIDIA does still have an official page with Hybrid SLI information here, but you'll notice that it hasn't had an update for newer cards in some time...
AMD offers Radeon Dual Graphics, which can be turned on in the BIOS when using a AMD discrete graphics card. This is considered Hybrid Crossfire and can give an added boost when necessary. This should never be considered a better solution in comparison to a true Crossfire, however.
SLI with Crossfire!
I recently came across a video on YouTube where a group has apparently done the impossible. They have SLI and Crossfire in the same rig! Now, unfortunately, this isn't SLI in use with Crossfire. This is just having both technologies in the same computer, which is still unheard of.
Evidently, you just plug up a monitor to the respective setup and change the primary display to whichever setup you want to use. The price quoted from the video is $5000. Not too bad for a special gaming rig, but too steep for my blood.
A couple things of note: I hate it when people discover new ways to do things and do not share it freely with the public. Yes, making money off an original (working) idea is great, but all of the other techniques I have listed are and always have been free. Then again, I could barely fit three cards in my current rig, so no real loss there.
Another thing is that I have been trying to deduce how they could have done this and I think the most obvious point is Crossfire. After looking at the video, you can tell that the cards are really snug. Crossfire does not need a physical bridge (if you are using a R9 285 or higher), and because of that it has made it all possible. Without that one feature, this video would not exist without some sort of custom bridge connectors.
I imagine that the drivers are where the meat of this method lies. At first I was thinking, maybe the tweaked the drivers to work properly, or maybe they have their own special software running. But I then began thinking about some of my own testing I had done on some AMD R9 290's I bought last year. My desktop was, and is still, using a GTX 680. So, I already had the NVIDIA Control Panel installed. I didn't want to bother uninstalling and reinstalling it (as I wanted to keep using the GTX 680), so I just installed AMD Catalyst alongside it. The only problem that ever occurred was that when the GTX 680 was the only card in my computer, I would get an error message from AMD Catalyst stating no AMD graphic cards were present.
A long time prior to that, I had been trying to SLI two GTX 480's. I was actually trying to setup a Tri-SLI setup, which led me to a lot of random testing. On this motherboard, it was recommended to have a single graphics card in the top (first) PCI Express slot. It was also recommended to use the last (third) PCI Express slot if the first had any issues. I did end up trying the last slot with a single graphics card during one of my trials and was successfully able to use my monitor. I believe I was even able to use the middle (second) slot without issue...
Why are these situations important to know? Well, first off, this means the two sets of opposing drivers can be installed and used without conflict. The second realization is that there can be more than one primary slot for a graphics card. Recall that in the video it is stated to switch from SLI to Crossfire or vice-versa you simply need to select the primary card in the settings for your display. What I then imagine is that having dual displays is actually unnecessary, since only one works at a time. Meaning that you could have one display plugged in one setup, but could then take out the plug and reinsert it into the other setup when wanting to switch. You would then change the primary display card and still have the same effect. Two displays just makes it easier (lazy!).
So, what I'm trying to get at is that I don't think there is really trick involved. As long as you have newer AMD cards that do not rely on physical bridge connections, and a motherboard that supports 4-way SLI/Crossfire, you should be able to accomplish this without any modifications or hacks. Unfortunately, I am currently unable to test this theory. I do have enough graphic cards for Crossfire and SLI, but the motherboards at my disposal will do 3-way SLI/Crossfire at best. There is some sort of legendary add-on board that should allow 4-way, but that item has never surfaced to the public.
Farewell
This was an enjoyable article to write and share. My hope is that people stumble across it and think, "I didn't know you could do that!" I have a lot of friends that don't even know much of this is even possible, part of that may be that they don't have an investing interest. But I do hope that if you read this you will find the information interesting if not useful.
WARNING: The techniques below do involve risk, I am not responsible for any mishaps.
SLI/Crossfire
ATI (now AMD) and NVIDIA were always the big contenders in the graphics card realm. Generally speaking, NVIDIA brings the most power, but AMD brings in better performance for their price tag. The battle between the two rages on as consumers fight amongst themselves as to who is better and why!
Along the way some new technology came about where you could connect two (or more) graphic cards together. If you connect at least two AMD/ATI graphic cards it's called Crossfire. If you connect two NVIDIA graphic cards it's called SLI (Scalable Link Interface).
Crossfire is now officially CrossfireX. There is some confusion with this name as CrossfireX was normally mentioned in relation to mobile platforms prior to the official change, and at times was also confusingly defined by some as four or more graphic cards in an array. As such, I continue to use Crossfire for just desktop graphic cards of two or more.
SLI and Crossfire offers better performance, mainly for games. It can offer better performance in applications, if those applications take advantage of two GPU's at one time, which seems rare. But one example is Adobe Premiere Pro. It can use SLI when rendering out video. Traditionally, graphic cards would need to be connected by physical "bridges" and had slots for these bridges. As of now, only AMD graphic cards can have bridges without a physical connection.
Hybrid Physx
This is probably the least useful trick of the five I will be discussing. Not because it is boring or difficult to accomplish, but because there is little use for it. Physx is proprietary to NVIDIA and used in some games to help increase aesthetics. (There are also applications that use Physx, but I believe that's even less popular than building games with it.) If you've played any of the newer Batman games on the PC, one difference with enabling Physx on a NVIDIA card would be the smoothness and wrinkling of Batman's cape as he moves about. It is a nice complement for details, but I have never found myself using Physx despite my favoritism for NVIDIA cards.
Anyways, Hybrid Physx is a way to connect an AMD card to a NVIDIA card and increase the performance for Physx games and applications. On older NVIDIA cards and AMD cards, this seems to work quite well. There are mixed results for newer cards, but it can be done. I even read about someone getting a GTX 680 and a R9 290 to work together, which oddly enough, I have.
The titles will have the links for the full instructions, but I will give the essential requirements in order to get them working:
Older NVIDIA Graphic Cards
- First install NVIDIA drivers ranging from version 258 to 285 for the GeForce 256.
- Then download and upgrade the Physx SS driver up to version 9.11.0621.
- Now download and install the Hybrid Physx Mod 1.05ff. This should automatically patch the necessary files to get Hyrbid Phsyx to work.
- Optionally, you can use the command line included to set a desired configuration, which I assume they mean display.
Newer NVIDIA Graphic Cards
- First download and install PreHybrid for older games
- Then download and install either NVIDIA 320.49 drivers for GTX 500 series and below, or NVIDIA 314.22 for GTX 600 & 700 series. These drivers do not include Physx, which is why they are specifically used.
- Download and install the latest AMD Catalyst drivers.
- Download and install Physx driver version 9.13.0725.
- Download and run Hybridiz.
- Delete numerous files in the game directories.
Note: The Hybrid Physx for newer NVIDIA cards will only work on Windows 7/8, and can only work on games that use Physx 2.0 (not 3.0).
For newer cards there seems to be a lot more work involved in getting everything setup. There are multiple files to download and delete, and if you upgrade your NVIDIA drivers (Physx will not upgrade if already present in the system), you will need to rerun Hybridiz. There is also the chance of things crashing if not done in order and accordingly.
Again, I find hybrid Physx rather useless for so much work. Any game with Physx will run happily without it. I have never been so saddened by a game's graphics (that has Physx), and thought to myself, "I need Hyrbid Physx". If anything, I would more likely just buy another identical NVIDIA card to SLI with, and increase the Physx performance that way. But it is a cool experiment to try if you're bored and have some time.
HyperSLI
HyperSLI is the ability to enable SLI on motherboards that do not officially support it. Originally, this innovation was brought to the public by Asrock. They had created a patch for their motherboards with a certain chipset. The team at NGO took the patch and modified it to work for any motherboard.
I personally performed this method on an ASUS Crosshair III motherboard. I had bought two NVIDIA 560 Ti's not realizing that the motherboard only supported Crossfire. So I went on a hunt to see if I could enable SLI, and luckily, I could!
The newer versions of this are done by a different team and they call it HyperSLI. It is just as simple (if not simpler) to use, and should be just as successful. The process is quite simple and will take very little time to complete:
- Ensure that your CPU supports virtualization technology.
- Ensure that your BIOS has virtualization enabled.
- Download HyperSLI 1.0.
- Open HyperSLI.
- Push the button to enable SLI.
- Reboot PC.
NVIDIA requires at least two x8 PCI Express slots to officially offer SLI support. Motherboard manufacturers can often save money by offering one slot as a full x16 and another at x4. So, there are still plenty of motherboards out there with just Crossfire support, and if you happen to have one, this will almost certainly work!
Different SLI
Different SLI was actually created by the same team who created HyperSLI. ATI always had the added benefit of being able to Crossfire between other graphics cards (not all, but those that use the same architecture) despite their models. NVIDIA never grasped the concept and forced consumers to buy similar models [meaning same model but with the "choice" of a different manufacturer].
Different SLI has come along to change all that. Different SLI allows you to take two different model NVIDIA cards and put them into SLI. Initially, the theory was that only NVIDIA cards using identical GPU's could successfully perform Different SLI. There were some tests to support this, while there were some that did not. At this point, it has been determined that the hardware ID's have to match, or rather the three specific characters.
This really opens the doors for many NVIDIA users. There are numerous cards that can be SLI'd. If you have a cheap card, you may be able to upgrade with a better card and get SLI. If you have a new card, you may be able to get an older, cheaper one and get SLI. In any case, there is a good chance you can get that additional boost in performance that SLI delivers.
Here are the steps you need to know, including preparation, in order to perform Different SLI:
- Check the first post here for your card and what other cards match it for SLI purposes. Look at your graphic cards first three characters/digits after "DEV_".
- Compare these to the graphics card you wish to try. If they are a match, then they should work together.
- Install the graphic cards into the computer.
- Connect the cards by a SLI bridge. If you do not have a SLI bridge you can buy one from Amazon. But if one of your cards does not have an area for the SLI bridge, you are out-of-luck.
- Download Different SLI 1.0.
- Unzip the folder and start Different SLI.
- Press the "Patch" button.
NOTE: GTX 970's & 980's hardware ID's match, so they should be able to SLI together.
You should fully know if a card you plan to get, or already have, should work with Different SLI before trying this. There is no reason to run out and buy a card that you come to find out simply won't work. Just as there is no reason to try Different SLI on two cards you already own if they are not compatible.
This is by far the most interesting item to discuss (for me). I have been wanting to try this for some time, but have either not had the funds or not had the resources available to try. When I first found out about this method I had a GTX 480. The GTX 580 was incompatible (in either theory), and I already had SLI, so I moved on.
But now I use a GTX 680 and would love to give a GTX 770 or a GTX 690 a try; just to see if I can do it, and how good it can do if so. With a GTX 770, it should react more like a GTX 680 or 770 SLI. However, a GTX 690 would be like a GTX 680 Tri-SLI setup. Others will argue more like a GTX 670 SLI with a 680, despite the amount of CUDA cores is exactly double that of a GTX 680, and a GTX 690 tests near-identical to that of a GTX 680 SLI setup. It would be even more interesting since a GTX 690 can be said to be about on par with a GTX 780 Ti or a GTX 980, depending on the settings and game. I would really like to compare benchmarks between a GTX 680 & 690 SLI versus a GTX 780 Ti SLI or GTX 980 SLI. But I digress...
Hybrid SLI/Hybrid Crossfire
Hybrid SLI or Hybrid Crossfire refers to having a discrete GPU (a GPU not part of the motherboard or the CPU) that can link with the graphics chip integrated into the motherboard or CPU. This is not to be confused with NVIDIA's Optimus or AMD's PowerXpress on mobile chips (laptops and notebooks). These features actually just switch between either the discrete graphics card or integrated graphics depending on the GPU load.
While originally this was used with motherboards that had integrated graphics, this is now largely related to CPU's. With the popularity of CPU's incorporating integrated graphics, there has been less of a need to have motherboards with integrated graphics. I also wanted to briefly mention that AMD refers to their CPU's with integrated graphics as APU's (Accelerated Processing Units). Yet the definition for an APU would actually apply to Intel CPU's as well.
Just for a bit of history, and for my next thought, the idea of combining two graphic cards was and is called hybrid-graphics. However, this is about switching from discrete to integrated graphics, not combining the two.
Intel still has hybrid-graphics, but NVIDIA no longer supports it. You should be able to downgrade your drivers and do some tweaks to get them to work, but you may have a performance impact for newer cards. Intel also has two types of hybrid-graphics: Fixed & Dynamic. Fixed determines which graphics source to use based on power. Dynamic determines which graphics source to use based on GPU load. NVIDIA does still have an official page with Hybrid SLI information here, but you'll notice that it hasn't had an update for newer cards in some time...
AMD offers Radeon Dual Graphics, which can be turned on in the BIOS when using a AMD discrete graphics card. This is considered Hybrid Crossfire and can give an added boost when necessary. This should never be considered a better solution in comparison to a true Crossfire, however.
SLI with Crossfire!
I recently came across a video on YouTube where a group has apparently done the impossible. They have SLI and Crossfire in the same rig! Now, unfortunately, this isn't SLI in use with Crossfire. This is just having both technologies in the same computer, which is still unheard of.
Evidently, you just plug up a monitor to the respective setup and change the primary display to whichever setup you want to use. The price quoted from the video is $5000. Not too bad for a special gaming rig, but too steep for my blood.
A couple things of note: I hate it when people discover new ways to do things and do not share it freely with the public. Yes, making money off an original (working) idea is great, but all of the other techniques I have listed are and always have been free. Then again, I could barely fit three cards in my current rig, so no real loss there.
Another thing is that I have been trying to deduce how they could have done this and I think the most obvious point is Crossfire. After looking at the video, you can tell that the cards are really snug. Crossfire does not need a physical bridge (if you are using a R9 285 or higher), and because of that it has made it all possible. Without that one feature, this video would not exist without some sort of custom bridge connectors.
I imagine that the drivers are where the meat of this method lies. At first I was thinking, maybe the tweaked the drivers to work properly, or maybe they have their own special software running. But I then began thinking about some of my own testing I had done on some AMD R9 290's I bought last year. My desktop was, and is still, using a GTX 680. So, I already had the NVIDIA Control Panel installed. I didn't want to bother uninstalling and reinstalling it (as I wanted to keep using the GTX 680), so I just installed AMD Catalyst alongside it. The only problem that ever occurred was that when the GTX 680 was the only card in my computer, I would get an error message from AMD Catalyst stating no AMD graphic cards were present.
A long time prior to that, I had been trying to SLI two GTX 480's. I was actually trying to setup a Tri-SLI setup, which led me to a lot of random testing. On this motherboard, it was recommended to have a single graphics card in the top (first) PCI Express slot. It was also recommended to use the last (third) PCI Express slot if the first had any issues. I did end up trying the last slot with a single graphics card during one of my trials and was successfully able to use my monitor. I believe I was even able to use the middle (second) slot without issue...
Why are these situations important to know? Well, first off, this means the two sets of opposing drivers can be installed and used without conflict. The second realization is that there can be more than one primary slot for a graphics card. Recall that in the video it is stated to switch from SLI to Crossfire or vice-versa you simply need to select the primary card in the settings for your display. What I then imagine is that having dual displays is actually unnecessary, since only one works at a time. Meaning that you could have one display plugged in one setup, but could then take out the plug and reinsert it into the other setup when wanting to switch. You would then change the primary display card and still have the same effect. Two displays just makes it easier (lazy!).
So, what I'm trying to get at is that I don't think there is really trick involved. As long as you have newer AMD cards that do not rely on physical bridge connections, and a motherboard that supports 4-way SLI/Crossfire, you should be able to accomplish this without any modifications or hacks. Unfortunately, I am currently unable to test this theory. I do have enough graphic cards for Crossfire and SLI, but the motherboards at my disposal will do 3-way SLI/Crossfire at best. There is some sort of legendary add-on board that should allow 4-way, but that item has never surfaced to the public.
Farewell
This was an enjoyable article to write and share. My hope is that people stumble across it and think, "I didn't know you could do that!" I have a lot of friends that don't even know much of this is even possible, part of that may be that they don't have an investing interest. But I do hope that if you read this you will find the information interesting if not useful.
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